[froschy]

Not trying to make any points about these two phones rather just state the little that I knew about them. As for Sony, yes +1 for pulling the phone to resolve the issues -2 for releasing a buggy phone.

As for Nokia, it'll be a cold day in hell before they pull the N97 but I had at least hoped that they would learn the lesson that you don't release a beta state product into this market, then of course they released the X6. This just doesn't fly anymore.

[rasmus]

Well there sure is a lot of here-say, many blame symbian - personally i tend to put more of the blame on Nokia.  S60v5 has cool things like theme effect etc that have now been pulled from the firmware in v21 in an effort to speed up the N97.  Symbian can do stuff, and is a good OS - that is the bottom line - maybe the N97/Nokia just can't pull it off.

Without going into too much of which is better take a look of the following video - a picture is worth a thousand words - a video is worth a million:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSTYXOpSDLA

No question which s60v5 device performs - and it sure isn't the n97.

[pressure]

Shamefull  that video   especialy has Nokia own Symbian don't they?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7470772.stm    and wasn't it nokia that made it open source for the likes of Samsung to use

Samsung are def a echnology leader  and they make many of the devices in all phones including iPhone.

What will nokia do to keep it its customers?

Maps 3.03  is a big start   my N97 runs and functions "OK"  (could be beter I hope with next F/W update I will be as happy as i was with my 95-1)    Maps is the main thing keeping me selling and getting something else.   

Nokia need to give me HomeNetwork (upnp)  my 6 year old iPaq PDA  could stream music and video from my PC  and my  N95 could   i did a so called upgrade to N97 and it does **bleep** all on  networking.     

I could open a picture on my n95 and show it on my 40" TV    was bloody great

and my N95  did internet radio   in fact even more basic ohones than N95 had nokia internet radio

Come on Nokia  FIX-Up    the customers are not happy and the compatition must be laughing at you, time to fight back  (your customers are even offering to help)

[froschy]

@ rasmus - I place the blame fully with Nokia, sure Symbian^1/2 is not the prettiest or most intuitive Touch UI but the flaws, bugs and slow laggy performance of the phone is definitely all their fault.

As for the video, it just shows that s60v5 devices really need a faster processor and 256 MB of RAM. I can't help thinking that if Nokia had put decent hardware in this device that half of the bugs we're experiencing wouldn't exist, and then instead of spending all of their time trying to optimise hardware that can't cope with the overhead of the device they could have spent their time fixing the other bugs and improving the user experience.

(Supposition not here-say) I suspect that Nokia intentionally underpowered the N97 but I just don't know whether it was through stubborn arrogance, sheer stupidity, or devious planning.

[rasmus]

" I suspect that Nokia intentionally underpowered the N97 but I just don't know whether it was through stubborn arrogance, sheer stupidity, or devious planning "

- Yeah totally, they are cheap.  But with that said why did I have to pay $800 for a premium device that was nothing more than underpowered junk.  With that said I would say if that were the case they would be more on the side of being crooks than cheap - since they knew what they were doing and what it was worth.  As the largest phone manufacturer on earth i find it hard to believe that they did not know exactly what they were doing.  Shameful.

If the Nokia N97 were $200 i would have more sympathy and accept what i got.

[froschy]

@ rasmus - I completely agree with you and I am fed up with people stating that the phone with v20/21 is good/great/the best. No it's not, it's just OK and that's not good enough for a device that cost US $700.

[rasmus]

Well after looking at todays headlines i don't think my comments were too far off the mark:

Nokia to fight securities fraud suit:

..allegations that it hid news of supplier shortages and price cuts, misleading investors as to the true state of its business.

http://www.computerweekly.com/Articles/2010/02/09/240241/Nokia-to-fight-securities-fraud-suit.htm

Looks like i was not the only one that was lied to!

[Fender77]

It's defently a bad device. I had v21 since release, and it makes the phone better, but it's not good enough. I think I still can't use it for work. I have never had service on my nokia, and it has the bad gps antenna. - The gps does not work at all now. 

If I am going to buy Nokia again, they need to make a device which has the hardware. 1ghz cpu, 512mb ram - and no cheap "plastic fantastic ram".

[pressure]

Nokia Seem to LIKE NEGATIVE PRESS

Why else would they allow hundreds of negative comments a day all over the net about their products without    listening, defending, comenting, reacting in anyway

I trusted Nokia  after owned the N95  which was well ahead of the competion when launched

i got to some nokia website and a FEEBACK questionaire pops up asking loads of questions but not about my experince with the $$$ phone i purchased  or what I "the customer" wants.

Nokia listen to us -  we want to help  

[timmyjo]

We trade a "pretty" interface for great functionality. We paid for premium hardware, but got three year old scraps. The Samsung was released at about the same time for a similar price. I had thought Nokia would make good with firmware, I guess they did too. Doesn't matter anymore. Android countdown has begun for me, June 22.....

[Fender77]

I don't wanna moan about it, but it's not reliable. I cannot trust the device to function when I need it. It has been 6 months, and it's just not good enough. In fact, I cannot accept it. Are we gonna wait a few more months to get the next fw. I have already had some reboots. - Random reboots and one during mailwriting. And for an extra kick in the , It didn't get saved.

I love the design though...

[timmyjo]

Another "band-aid". I'm currently using a trial version of "RAMblow". It's main purpose is to shut down apps when the phone is idle. There's a time limit of 10 minutes to a few hours. It helps with the RAM situation. Especially with messaging that never closes even after exiting. Anybody interested?

[froschy]

---

...I cannot trust the device to function when I need it...

---

That sums up this device perfectly.

[rasmus]

Hmmmm,

Ramblow might be one approach - I would prefer Rambo going into the Nokia Head office in Finland and getting some real awnsers.

Why should i have to pay for an apps that speeds up my phone? Already paid $800 of my hard earned recession cash to get a phone that one would think 8 months later might actually work - 4th firmware later, it still sucks - maybe worse.

Bottom line is that in N97 v21 Nokia has removed as much as they can, including theme effects - they are grasping at straws.  Snake oil is not going to fix anything.

We need Rambo not RamBlow!

[timmyjo]

I'm as disgusted as y'all, just making the best of it until June. Nokia "cheaped out" on the hardware and dumped this mess on the software people. They either can't handle it, or it can't be done. We lose for now, Nokia loses later. If they would just eliminate the attempted multitasking, we'd have a far more capable Iphony.......

[froschy]

@ rasmus - With v21 I still have Nokia's so called theme effects, no change there. As for RAMBlow, the fact that a product like this is needed for the N97 should indicate to Nokia that there is a problem with this pile of dog p*o*o that they call a phone.

@ timmyjo - Getting rid of multi-tasking may help with the stability of the phone but it won't do anything for the slow, lagginess of this device: over 10 seconds to open the messaging app, widgets taking over 20 seconds to load from getting the data connection, etc...

RAMBlow, meh! This device BLOWS!

[timmyjo]

How about overclocking the CPU? Android and WinMo devices can be made to do this. I swa the "Droid" can be jumped from 550MHz to 1GHz, with a few choices in between. Why is no one hacking Symbian like this?

[froschy]

@ timmyjo - my understanding (not 100% sure) is that the it already has been over-clocked (from 300 MHz I think), unfortunately it's just an old CPU whereas the Droid and other devices have newer CPUs with room for over-clocking.

[pressure]

Good point about 'overclocking'   

I seem to remember  reading from a pre-release review that the N97 was in fact clocked down  to prolong battary.  I can't find proof but i'm sure I read that.

I still think todays programers who do things in very high level programing do things very clumbsy get down to  the noughts and ones   and make the code ultra efficiant. 

Have nokia done a complete review of whats installed in NAND: ?    I bet there is some bagage  in there. 

I'm still a little confused with the difference between  RAM and D: (Ramdrive: ?)  

in Y-Tasks  memory checker they always appear the same (in terms of free space)

My RAM currently says:  Total  120Mb  with 32Mb Free   (26%)

My  D:\   currently says:  Total    32 Mb  with 32Mb Free   (99%)

2.1  is usable   (minus some key features i had on my 95) 

MAPS 3.03 = ACE   only thing persides money stoping me changing phone.

please DON'T get rid of mutitasking   I could not bare that  could the apps in background get switched to slower memory?    swap file style?  or is that more baggage for CPU? 

I just want the  functions I had in My N95  a bit more zip in the performance 9not to have to worry about ram all the time)     Come on Nokia you can do it

[timmyjo]

Out of deperation http://www.nokian97forum.com/lg-viewty-tips-and-tricks/a-way-to-'i-think'-overclock-the-n97/msg13144...